Curse

eternal_paladin · Nov 29, 2005, 09:15 PM // 21:15

spike trap is signifigantly better, as most pro trappers use insightful staves to trap, not bows

Epinephrine · Nov 29, 2005, 09:22 PM // 21:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by eternal_paladin

spike trap is signifigantly better, as most pro trappers use insightful staves to trap, not bows

Love the condescension. Stick to facts, not "the pros use it" - that both is a non-argument and insults those who choose otherwise.

Both have advantages, the energy cost of Oath Shot is easily offset. It comes down to whther you need the spike traps - our trapping team tends to use one trapper with Spike Trap and one with Oath Shot, so we get both effects. I personally prefer the Oath Shot version, and while I may hit energy problems, it isn't the Oath Shot causing it, it's the number of traps laid - with the recharge being so fast I can dump out a lot of traps.

Kwisatz_Haderach · Nov 29, 2005, 11:10 PM // 23:10

Personally i cant decide between the two.

in one corner you have oath shot a skill that makes you be able to spam traps, but more importantly in my opinion it drastically reduces the recharge time for skills like whirling defense and mantra of resolve which will allow you to trap under fire.

In the other corner you have spike trap. A great trap that cripples and Knocksdown a target while dowing around 60 damage. This allows for interuptions on everyone in general but i use it for another reason. The Real power of spike trap is the fact it maximises all your other traps. Face the facts a warrior running through a trap zone and getting knocked down while in it will get hit at least 2-3 times more. This is incredibly powerful pretty much multipling the damage caused by your traps.

All in all i think it depends more on your style than either one being a better trapper elite.

The Holy Stewy · Nov 29, 2005, 11:15 PM // 23:15

Id Have to go with spike trap just because as a effictive trapper useally you want to be useing a staff for the +10 energy bounus it gives. That and a few sprits is speed trapping enough. But the the oath shot isnt bad if you have a bow then change to staff or whatever. Personal dissesion.

tomcruisejr · Nov 30, 2005, 01:09 AM // 01:09

spike trap

1) massive aoe knockdowns which can halt/gimp an impending spike.
2) knockdown + cripple = solid ensnare
3) coupled with dust trap, it can rattle a healing ball.
4) halts capping when layed perfectly

oathshot - trap galore

1) dual or more dust traps on an area @ 16 ws can give 52 or more dmg per pulse
2) lotsa traps layed, which can benefit a kiting team.

both are great but i prefer spike trap.

twicky_kid · Nov 30, 2005, 01:13 AM // 01:13

2 trappers with spike trap the rest with oath shot

ak347 · Nov 30, 2005, 02:26 AM // 02:26

trappers running both oath shot and spike trap
add in mantra of resolve and arcane mimicry
=problem solved (mimic when you need oath shot)
Make sure to also run serpents quick and qz

jaibas17 · Nov 30, 2005, 02:26 AM // 02:26

well, trappers can have 2 sides: condition spamming and damage dealing.

as damage dealing, i like to lay a dust trap, then a spike trap so when people realize, they are falling down, taking several hist and increasing damage made. this is specially useful gainst some monks that are a little distracted. on thother side, if you are looking for a condition spamming, i dont think having 2 skills for crippling and bleeding will help more than one, counting that barbed cripples and bleeds for 26 secs while spike only for 16.

it just depends on your side of an issue, oath shot might help more for vim healers for example

Fian Adair · Nov 30, 2005, 02:27 AM // 02:27

I go for Spike Trap over Oath Shot, I love the knockdown and cripple effect which lets you hit the target with more traps before he can escape. Nothing beats getting amongst 4 or 5 targets and watching them drop in sync with a quick Spike Trap.

twicky_kid · Nov 30, 2005, 02:37 AM // 02:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fian Adair

I go for Spike Trap over Oath Shot, I love the knockdown and cripple effect which lets you hit the target with more traps before he can escape. Nothing beats getting amongst 4 or 5 targets and watching them drop in sync with a quick Spike Trap.

having 1 spike trap down or 5 down its still the same knockdown. its better to do a split of oath and spike. you only need 1 spike to go off to snare them into the other traps.

i like that mimic idea but don't like the 60 second cool down.

Vilaptca · Nov 30, 2005, 02:43 AM // 02:43

I could see using Oath Shot in PvP for a trapper build...as you aren't going to pull a whole mob towards you when you shoot that one arrow, and then you can get back to trapping...

But I would never use Oath Shot in PvE for trapping. If you are using it to recharge your skills faster, then you aren't going to get many traps down before the monsters come rushing in to kill you.

I don't PvP, and I trap UW a lot, so Spike Trap for me. Theres really no need to ever bring a bow to UW for trapping.

TheGuildWarsPenguin · Nov 30, 2005, 04:35 AM // 04:35

For a trapper, spike trap.
For a different type of ranger, oath shot.

Tranquil Soul · Nov 30, 2005, 05:50 AM // 05:50

Thanks guys this helps a lot.

ejm716 · Nov 30, 2005, 09:24 AM // 09:24

for PvP sumone *should* take greater conflaguration. it only makes sense with there high wilderness survival that the trapper do it. Im sure spike trap and oath shot are just lovely. but come against a r9+ spike ranger team and conflag will help a lot more than that lovely kd for a second or 2 FACT!

Gwenhywar · Nov 30, 2005, 08:58 PM // 20:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by eternal_paladin

spike trap is signifigantly better, as most pro trappers use insightful staves to trap, not bows

My PvP character building screen has an option to put a 2nd weapon on.

Dunno about yours ^^.

Fian Adair · Dec 01, 2005, 12:32 AM // 00:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by twicky_kid

having 1 spike trap down or 5 down its still the same knockdown.

Huh? I never said having more than 1 Spike Trap made a difference on knockdown.

Livpooolsupafayn · Dec 04, 2005, 08:53 AM // 08:53

Spike Trap fer sure. Just use serpents quickness, and thorw dirt to keep them perma blinded. No need for oath shot unless youre a spirit spammer.

Funny now that the unworthy ghosts are smarter than real players when it comes to aoe damage.

Neo-LD · Dec 04, 2005, 04:33 PM // 16:33

Oath Shot is far and away the superior skill. All spike trap is, is a barbed trap that doesnt bleed. It obviously has a nifty knockdown, too, but you have to consider what you are giving up by leaving oath shot behind.

Firstly, oath shot is absolutely required if you want to use whirling defense ona a trapper. If you use spike trap, you must settle for mantra of resolve. MoR is nice, but if the enemy has any clue what they are doing, you will be sucked dry in seconds. Whirlign Defense does not require that kind of huge energy commitment, the only down side is that some of your trps occasionally will not get through, but that is acceptable since oath shot lets you use ore traps. Plus, the only way to interupt the traps is to devote one or more warriors/rangers to attacking you, and you have whirling defense up. good job enemy team, you are partially shutting down the trapper at the expense of losing an entire offensive person. Therefore, we conclude that oath shot + whirling defense > Mantra of Resolve, for ensuring that traps get through.

As for damage, you must realize that spike trap only gives you an extra trap every 20s, which will deal ~65 damage. On the other hand, oath shot gives you 3 extra traps every 20s, much more damage. (and more blind, cripple, bleed, and burning) Therefore we conclude that in terms of damage output, Oath Shot + Flame, Barb, and Dust Trap > Spike, Barb, Flame, and Dust Trap.

The last issue before us is energy management. If you devote 6 skills to your 3 traps, oath, whirling, and res, youhave slots for energy mangement. For a trapper using inspiration magic things (im a fan of power drain and leech signet) oath shot works fantastically, recharging them at the same time you are recharging your traps. Another version that requires less skill in interupting is using domination for shame. Just put it on a monk and you will usually get filled up. Your last spot can go for signet of weariness, which also works wonderfully with oath. Inboth scenerios oath shot is making your life significantly easier, letting you use your energymanagement twice as often. What exactly can spike trap do for energy management? ... ... Nothing, really. You can use all the same energy gaining skills, but you will only get half of the power out of them that you could with oath shot. Therefore, we conclude that in terms of energy management, Oath Shot + Inspiration or Domination skills > Spike Trap + Inspiration or Domination skills.

I dont think I have missed any important part of trapping, but so far, oath shot is better on counts of getting traps through, damage output, and energy management. Unless ayone can prove all that hard logic wrong, this debate is over, Oath Shot is better. I urge anyone reading this thread and trying to decide for themselves to realize that it is not the number of people believing one way or the other that matters, it is how well they present their case.

Winol · Dec 05, 2005, 11:50 AM // 11:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neo-LD

Oath Shot is far and away the superior skill. All spike trap is, is a barbed trap that doesnt bleed. It obviously has a nifty knockdown, too, but you have to consider what you are giving up by leaving oath shot behind.

Firstly, oath shot is absolutely required if you want to use whirling defense ona a trapper. If you use spike trap, you must settle for mantra of resolve. MoR is nice, but if the enemy has any clue what they are doing, you will be sucked dry in seconds. Whirlign Defense does not require that kind of huge energy commitment, the only down side is that some of your trps occasionally will not get through, but that is acceptable since oath shot lets you use ore traps. Plus, the only way to interupt the traps is to devote one or more warriors/rangers to attacking you, and you have whirling defense up. good job enemy team, you are partially shutting down the trapper at the expense of losing an entire offensive person. Therefore, we conclude that oath shot + whirling defense > Mantra of Resolve, for ensuring that traps get through.

As for damage, you must realize that spike trap only gives you an extra trap every 20s, which will deal ~65 damage. On the other hand, oath shot gives you 3 extra traps every 20s, much more damage. (and more blind, cripple, bleed, and burning) Therefore we conclude that in terms of damage output, Oath Shot + Flame, Barb, and Dust Trap > Spike, Barb, Flame, and Dust Trap.

The last issue before us is energy management. If you devote 6 skills to your 3 traps, oath, whirling, and res, youhave slots for energy mangement. For a trapper using inspiration magic things (im a fan of power drain and leech signet) oath shot works fantastically, recharging them at the same time you are recharging your traps. Another version that requires less skill in interupting is using domination for shame. Just put it on a monk and you will usually get filled up. Your last spot can go for signet of weariness, which also works wonderfully with oath. Inboth scenerios oath shot is making your life significantly easier, letting you use your energymanagement twice as often. What exactly can spike trap do for energy management? ... ... Nothing, really. You can use all the same energy gaining skills, but you will only get half of the power out of them that you could with oath shot. Therefore, we conclude that in terms of energy management, Oath Shot + Inspiration or Domination skills > Spike Trap + Inspiration or Domination skills.

I dont think I have missed any important part of trapping, but so far, oath shot is better on counts of getting traps through, damage output, and energy management. Unless ayone can prove all that hard logic wrong, this debate is over, Oath Shot is better. I urge anyone reading this thread and trying to decide for themselves to realize that it is not the number of people believing one way or the other that matters, it is how well they present their case.

i second that

Very nice post dude

OATH SHOT FOR TEH WIN

Peewee · Dec 05, 2005, 01:05 PM // 13:05

easy answer really.
Spike Trap is by far thre more useful. thanks to the recent ai/aoe update enemies will now run from traps. true if u are trying to put down loads of traps then oath shot is better, but remember oath shot requires 2 things, a bow and a target. it is far better to take a staff for trapping for the extra nrg.

basically with serpents quickness i can put down 4 dust traps, 4 spike traps, 1 barbed trap, and 4 flame traps, with 15 secs to spare to lure. with oath shot,i can put down the same number of traps, and then instanly recharge them when i lure. consider this tho. with seprents quickness barbed, spike and flame will rehcharge in under 20secs, and dust will recharge in 20secs, about the amount of time for a lure, so the point in taking oath shot is gone, unless u want to recharge whirling defence. not only that the enemy will hit u traps, and not be knocked down, and will be out of trap range in 2 secs. if u are going with a team then u may be alright with this, but i cant solo farm griffons with out it. the knockdown means they will be in the AoE for 3-4 secs, and then if u put down a second spike trap at just the right time. they will go down again, and then they really are done for.

as far as trapping with a team in UW etc, i have not yet met a trapper who brings oath shot, and has spike trap at his disposal. the factis that racharge time is no prob with QS and serpents Q, and nrg is no prob with EW. simply oath shot has no place

unless u g for the build above. there is something wrong woth ur maths tho. u seem to have forgotten Serpents Q, and u seem to be assuming that u can put all ur traps dwon instantly. By the time i have put down all 4 of my traps i have to w8 about 2 secs to start again, apart form dust trap. in pvp maybe oath shot has its place, but i still think that if u want to dmg, then it has to be spike. if ur going for the conditions it inflictsthen oath shot would be better. i personally like spike = dust, as i do about 150dmg in total. as they cant run.
I think that it is nigh on impossible to halt a flag runner without spike, as u will be able to cripple them, but not really get much dmg in, unless u put points into markanship. i have kinda betrayed my own laws for most of this post, and i still beleive that there is no 'best' solution. do wahtever works for u. i would say, solo farmig = spike. gvg or pvp = oath